Budget Your Business

Digital Accessibility: A Revenue Decision, Not a Technical One with Richard Gauder

• Scott Geller • Season 1 • Episode 47

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Digital accessibility means building a website that works for everyone—people with disabilities, seniors, and increasingly, AI. When a site is well-structured, easy to navigate, and free of technical barriers, it builds trust and removes friction that prevents people from buying. Accessibility isn’t just a compliance or “nice-to-have” issue; it directly impacts revenue because customers can’t convert if they can’t use your site. As AI becomes a primary way people find experts, accessible, clearly organized websites are the ones AI understands, trusts, and recommends—making accessibility a business advantage, not a technical detail. 

Podcast Recommendation: Practical Accessibility Insights with Sandi Gauder

Find out more about Richard Gauder: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/richardgauder/ 

https://cmswebsolutions.com/ 


Find more episodes on Apple podcast, Spotify, Amazon Music and here: https://budgetyourbusinesspodcast.buzzsprout.com/


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SPEAKER_01:

And the question was, could they purchase tickets using only a keyboard? And the answer to both was no. So all of a sudden it's a revenue, it's about revenue as opposed to, oh, it's a nice thing, you must do this.

Scott:

No, it it actually helps people like small business owners who want to learn how to financially plan for every aspect of their business. I'm your host, Scott Geller. Today I'm joined by Richard Gowder of CMS Web Solutions to talk about the importance of a business website in today's environment. Hello, Richard. Thanks for joining us. For folks who are meeting you for the first time, could you share a little bit about who you are and what you do?

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. My wife and I went into business in 2001 after 9-11. We decided the world goes crazy and we started our own business. And we ended up uh being a marketing company, and then this thing called the Internet uh websites came on. Um my wife had under her uh co-op at IBM for three summers and um so became a web developer. And then um we got into web accessibility, digital accessibility maybe 10 years ago. So we um basically were in uh we started off as an agency, um web agency, um, also hosting, uh Canadian hosting. We are in Canva. I hope that's okay that you're talking to a Canadian. It's uh by the way, it's a bomby minus 18 Fahrenheit here. Lots of snow.

Scott:

That that that's cold, Richard. I thought I was cold, and it's I think 20 here, but you you got another 20 degrees on the well, it's it's going down a minus 25 Fahrenheit in a couple days.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah, it's uh yeah, it gets a little chilly here. So we stay inside and do this internet thing a lot. It's a lot better than being on the street. Anyway, and so um, yeah, we got into uh digital accessibility maybe 11 years ago. Nobody really cared, but we we do the hosting, we do the web, and we also now do digital accessibility education and training. So we've stopped taking on new websites, and now we're going in and working with agencies, training their content producers, developers, and designers on accessibility. We go into organizations and their teams and help them. So we're basically trying to move the internet forward during this time of if an upheaval, as we might say in the whole website business.

Scott:

Okay. So coming from a finance guy here, how would you define digital accessibility? Like what does that really mean? Because I can I kind of I feel like I kind of understand what that means, but I'd I'd love from somebody that's a little more educated in that area to tell me.

SPEAKER_01:

Basically, it's making sure that everybody can access the internet, no matter who they are, no matter if they're seniors, people with disabilities, or now AI. Because I look at digital accessibility also as AI is blind. So if you're not don't care about people with disability, care about AI. And basically a well-structured website that is easy for people with assisted devices to use that loads quickly, all the old stuff. It's even more valuable now as websites sort of shift into more an operational type of thing rather than a marketing tool, more a destination kind of place where you are the expert now and people come. So uh basically just making it accessible for everybody. There's so much money that is spent driving people to the website or in the past. And then when they get there, there's these technical barriers that people don't realize that why are they in the way? Why would you why would you prevent any single customer from purchasing your product or service? It just doesn't make sense to me.

Scott:

But you know, could you give me a couple of examples of what some of these barriers would be?

SPEAKER_01:

Sure. So let's say um you can't you have a carpal tunnel, you can't use uh your wrist, or you're blind and you use an assisted device. Assisted device is something like JAWS or your website speaks to you. So those types of people use just the keyboard to navigate. They can't use a mouse because they can't see the pointer or they can't use it. Um and so what a website, an accessible website, does is it says these guidelines that we use, um, it says people should be able to navigate and know where they are just using a keyboard. We did one for a couple of uh for a major bank um uh for global uh global accessibility, where to stay, a few years ago, and they picked two zoos, and they picked the Chicago Zoo and the Toronto Zoo. And the question was, could they purchase a ticket using only a keyboard? And the answer to both was no. So all of a sudden it's a revenue, it's it's about revenue as opposed to oh, it's a nice thing, you must do this. No, it it actually helps people buy your stuff or use your stuff.

Scott:

So let me, for example, if I'm and I I use Wix for my website. If I stand up a Wix website, I'm guessing that it doesn't have this capability just in their in their standard, you know, throw a name on it and put it up their version.

SPEAKER_01:

No, the rental sites like Wix and Squarespace, and I call them rental because the businesses don't own them. They're renting them, and if they leave, they have to leave the whole platform. So they can't like they don't own them, they rent them, which is fine. They're great for small businesses and everything like that. But yeah, they're a lot of times they're getting better, Wix, but it's still not there. So you can just test it. You can have your people just test their own website if you just go with a the tab key, right? There's a tab key. So if you can tab through a website and know where you are at all times, it'll dump, then you know it's the structure is okay. That's so there's the there's sort of the structure, um, there's the design, so you know, color contrast and and um you know, there's all alternative texts for pictures that describe the pictures, because the picture will then speak to the person that is, say, blind of what that picture is or AI, what it is. Semantic layout. Now that's sort of if you think about it, websites that are laid out correctly, each one, and then which is the heading, one one per page, and then your H2s. It's like a book, if you think about it, like a book. So you've got your table of contents for the headings, and then you've got your content. And so when you tab through a website, a lot of times um well, it's accessible, it has a skip to link because what happens is it goes to the headings instead of you know, you're in one side of the website, and then oh, I gotta go back here. And then if it didn't have a skip, like if it didn't have that navigation, it would start the whole website all over again. So there's little things that make it easier for uh yeah.

Scott:

And and this is impacted not only by individuals kind of physical, but also AI, you're saying.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, yeah, because if you think about it, um, you know, the bots that are crawling now, they will come and they are looking for more sort of the expertise now. And they're they're skimming, and everything has to be aligned because it really you need to own a piece of AI's mind, sort of thing. You need to be the source of you now are becoming the source, you're feeding them the answers, right? They want the so questions answered. That's how they're kind of going about it. Now, before it used to be ranking, and you know, I want to be top on Google, top 10 on Google, and then Google started shrinking, and then you know, now it's one click, so it's it's shifted in that and you use your website more as a communication hub for information. Um, and people will arrive there differently, but the people that arrive there are going to be more ready to purchase. And the the closing is typically done, you know, on the website. That's where you convert, or that's well, just ask yourself and your audience. You go to a website, you you sort of judge a website, so you that the trust, you know, is it because there's so much fake now. So is it aligned with you know, the the social? It's aligned with everything. Is this a real website? And is I'm gonna give my money to you? So yeah, there's that whole trust factor. There's that whole you got to be the expert in what it is you're selling or doing nowadays.

Scott:

So and can you do this on the what you call rental sites, or do you have to own the site? And I'm guessing when you say own the site, is that kind of like a WordPress?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, something like WordPress is open source that is hosted. And so let's say you so the reason I'm I say it this way is when we started out, we started off with closed systems as opposed to open source systems. Closed systems are like Wix and and um Squarespace. They're good for starting, they're good enough. Again, it's it's a communication vehicle. What and you ask yourself, well, do you need a website? Yeah, you need a website uh still, is it doing what your target audience wants it to do? You know, when I'm at with a client, you know, and they go, Well, I want this, and it's like, actually, Mr. Client, you don't count. And they're like, What? And it says, I'm don't worry, I I don't count either. The only people that count are the one face on the other side of the screen. What are they looking for? How do they want to see it? And then you give it to them in exactly that way. And if you do a correct job um and then and it's effortless, well, that reflects on your company. That makes people go, Oh, these people speak my language. You know, you don't speak in the client's language, you speak a perfect example is um we had like a car dealer, and the owner said, Um, I'm not, I'm not optimizing my website on used cars. I don't like that term. It's pre-owned vehicles. And I said, Well, Mr. I grabbed the data and said, 98% of the people use used used cars, and 2% want, you know, which one would you like to do? And yeah, so it's important. And people still push back. Sometimes they say, No, what I want to do is more important using my words and communicating. I usually start talking in a different language, just to emphasize the point that communication is is very important, and you need to communicate the way people hear. And otherwise you're you're just trying to push your stuff out.

Scott:

That makes sense, Richard. I I like that. It is communication, right? It it's to me, I I can relate that to I can talk in incredibly technical finance and Excel terms and get a blank there from somebody, or I can put it in a in a practical way, right? In not the my wife is a teacher. She didn't grow up in her, she didn't go to school for finance. And I'll do the sometimes to catch myself doing the same with her wife because she kind of tells me to stop now very easily. You're not gonna be able to do that. Exactly. Yes. But it's the same with business owners, right? And in businesses, or is if you're you can talk in your own language, but if you're trying to get something across, you need to speak it in the language of who's listening.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And you really sales isn't really sales anymore. It's it's more where do you want to go? And how can I help you get to where you're going? That's a more generous kind of offering than you need to buy this, you know. Here's our offer, and you know, it's no, you know, where do you want to get to? And oh, you know what? Here's how you can do that. Me help them. And and it creates a far better relationship. And yeah. But yeah, it's it's it's your your responsibility to communicate in a way, and more importantly, now, even more so than before, it's important that the message and the messaging and the branding and the content is all aligned across your digital platform, so that it's your website or your social media or your LinkedIn or whatever, everything has to now align, even more so. And I guess if you you want to end up being the place where AI comes as you are the you are the expert. Google made their their money and took over the world basically because they recreated like a medical textbook and it had citations in the back. And the more people that referenced that citation out in the world, the more important that thing was. And that's that's what they created online, right? So you now, you know, a lot of the stuff in SEO is still is still relevant. Um, it's less and less, but it's still relevant. Um, but you want to be that relevant, um, especially in your market. Um so when somebody, hey, you know, hey Google or hey chat, um, who's a uh financial person in my town, you know, and it knows that you are the go-to person in your town.

Scott:

Sure. I and do you find that leading towards it more revenue for businesses?

SPEAKER_01:

I find from an operational standpoint. Businesses and especially like when you get into municipalities and sort of larger organizations and mid-sized organizations, they want their clients to do things more online. And and I think small businesses is the same way. They'd rather have people do and find things online. So yes, it absolutely helps revenue in that it doesn't waste your money. Um, it helps people. A lot of things that are built for accessibility, people without any type of disability also use. Take, for example, closed captioning. Closed captioning was made for people that were deaf, right? And they got to read it. Well, how many times have you been in a you know in the gym or or somewhere in a bar and you're just reading the italic, you know, Siri. Siri was created specifically for people with disabilities. Now everybody's using voice. So it's it also drives a lot of the um design because it takes you out of the box. Um, a lot of technical people are are younger people, they don't think about this, right? So it really stretches them. So, yeah, absolutely. And and not only that, but our sites that see we baked it in. We didn't build it specifically in ad pricing, we just built accessibility into the websites that we built because our our feeling was if they had a more success, if a client, uh small business had a more successful website, it would last longer. Thereby they don't have to go back out in the market every three years and get it and spend thousands of dollars for a new website. And by owning it or and even tweak it, you know, as opposed to just blowing it all up and starting again. Um, so yeah, it's it's highly um important in mind. Um, but that's because a properly built website, it's built to standards, basically. There are different internet standards, and the internet always moves. So if you build to standards, sort of like ISO standards, then as the internet moves, you have a higher probability that it will also go along with it. And that's that works. That's what we've been doing throughout the years. And we have sites that have been around forever, and they work. So meanwhile, the Googles changed their rules, you know, like uh last January, I think they they went sort of hyperloco. It's still there as you own it, you control it. And that's the thing. Uh business people that I know like control. And we got out of the closed source business because we weren't really comfortable in that we owned, we own the clients. They would have to start all over again had they left the platform. And so and the other thing was we couldn't get what we wanted. Each each client is different, so they want things. And if the platform doesn't offer it, then you almost have to squeeze into squeeze into theirs instead of building your own.

Scott:

Understood. Okay. So let me let me kind of put this in maybe my own perspective here. And I have a website, I don't sell anything on it. It's about it's about me, it's about my services. What are some of the differences to think about between a website that does more of an e-commerce type website versus an abstract website that informs?

SPEAKER_01:

Again, you start at the customer. Um, and the best way to do it is is call up some of your customers and ask them what they look for. You know, ask ask your perfect customer what they're looking for, and then you then you build your website for them. A lot of times you're too close to it, and we wish to tell people what it is um that we do as opposed to answer questions um what they're asking, really what they're asking for. And a lot, and sometimes I'll go in and I'll say, hey, you know, who's who's your target mark? Um and I'll go buyers. And so, oh, okay, so you're you're not selling to the public, you're not selling B to C, you're selling to specifically a buyer that's gonna be looking. And so what do they look for? And how do we make their life absolutely easy? Where are their bumps? You know, so you might call a few buyers and say, listen, you know, this is what we do, or you know, uh, what would make your life easier? We're trying to make your life easier in the next person that buys from us, give us some impact, give us some feedback, and then you just you just change the website to reflect that. So for a small information website, it's the same thing. I would suggest that you also have a like an FAQ section questions answered the same way that somebody might ask a question on to Siri or Chat or whoever, you know, answer. You know, you know your business better than anybody. And I guess the only what you want to do is only put up the information that they are looking for or that um bots are looking for that gets them to the next phase of contact, right? Because a lot of times you don't want to give it all away or too much. You you want to have to have a conversation with the client and and have the relations accelerate the relationship. Digital is so friendly, but it it it's it's electronic, it's not nothing replaces having a conversation with a with another human being, sort of thing. So you just get up to that point. But again, your your question uh for a small business information site, it's just simple. It's just what are people looking for? Your your perfect client, not everybody, but your perfect who is it you want to deal with and give them that info, or at least the majority of it, so they feel comfortable picking up the phone or emailing you or setting up an appointment. Does that make sense?

Scott:

It does. It does. And I might I might push this one more time, one more question around this. And you mentioned several things, but I'm curious, what are the maybe a few components that you see people are just really missing on with their website today?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, they focus on themselves, not the customer. They don't know what they don't know. So they a lot of times they don't know that their website has technical barriers. Nobody's told them, nobody's they don't teach this sort of thing. Nobody's told them. I would say a properly built website will it it's not about the look of a website. You know, people that the one thing it just drives me nuts with with with some clients and and and individuals, people that are maybe in clients building this thing, they focus so much on the the beauty of the site, you know, as opposed to what a website's really about, which is conveying information. So I would much prefer to have a professional website than a property website. Because when was the last time you went and said, Hey, sent a website, say, Hey, check out this website, isn't it so pretty? No, it's like you're looking for information. And if you're B to B B2B, they're very busy. So they want to get in, get the information, get out. So again, it depends. People think that all websites are all about B2C, business to consumer, as opposed to business to business. So they'll they'll go on, they'll do all the social media marketing, you know, on all these things to drive people in. But their customers aren't there, but they think they should do it. So there's a lot of shoulds out there. Like you should do this, you should do that. Well, everybody's trying to sell something. So I'm not selling websites anywhere, so I could just, you know. So there, there's the truth. It's just so it's that, it's professional. If you ask for an accessible website, if it's to wake 2.1 uh double A, you will ensure, hopefully, if you can check it, that it is a it's a well-built site. So it's a way of saying, I want this, and then it's a well-built site as opposed to it's not about ego. It's not about ego, it's about getting a sale for me. It's always been about it. You know, when Facebook first came out, it was like likes. That's useless. You know, people are like, oh, likes, look at it, likes, likes, likes. It took forever for it to be effective, but people wanted likes. It's like, well, that's is it put money in your pocket? No, but look at all the people that like me. It's like, ah, I don't care. Oh, one thing. Also a measurement tool. So, so, and people forget that. So, you're gonna put QR codes on your items or what you're you know, that get drive people back to a website, or in some marketing stuff you do. You can actually measure, you can set your website up in order to measure the effectiveness of that marketing campaign of whatever it is. You drive them to one page and you know if it's effective or not. Because we're we're also moving to you know, what is old is is is new again. It's not all digital. We're we're going back to people door hangers up here or or flyers or wherever. But that's that's another thing that people miss. Is it's a measurement tool to determine the effectiveness of your marketing dollar spend. That's good for finance.

Scott:

That is a good that's a really good one, Richard. That's a great one to end on right there, because I'm always asking people, what do we get in back on this on this marketing? We need to spend it, but what are we getting back? That's great. Yeah well, well, Richard, I'd like to wrap up all of our shows with one to three takeaways that our listeners could literally put into action as they get off the podcast. It could be something you share with us already, or something about running your own business, or or around you know, some some of the website topics you mentioned. What do you have for us today?

SPEAKER_01:

Go to your website and read the content. And people have very short attention spans, so you want to make sure that it communicates what you want to communicate in the way that your audience. So I have a digs test, which I made up myself. Uh do I give up is is crap. But anyway, and people put things on that people don't really care about. And the other thing is people right now, their attention spans are so short that what you put up there needs to be personal, practical, and timely. That's what gets attention, especially the timely. So I'd go back really quickly to your website, read all your content, and or better yet, get one of your um clients that came to you, or that's your perfect client, read your website and say, Hey, does it convey what it is that I actually do? You'd be surprised. So um then you align it, fine-tune it. Go to go to a website called WebAIM about accessibility. It's called WebAIM, and it's um they have a tool on there that is called it's like a checker, your accessibility checker. Um, let me just bring that up and throw your website in there and see if it is accessible or not. Um, it might not be. Um, it probably isn't. Um, but you'll be able to go to that site and get a rating for your website, which is kind of cool. So it'll it'll give you, oh, your website is 60% or whatever. Um, that's something they can do right away. Um, or or immediately tab, tab on your website if you can't, if you don't know where you are when you're tabbing, your structure's not accessible. Okay. Um, how's that for accessibility and financial?

Scott:

Absolutely, that's great. Thank you. And what about a good podcast or a book recommendation?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, being a good husband, my wife has a podcast, and you can access that through our website at cmswebsolutions.com and go onto the podcast page, and it's all about accessibility. So he has people that are in the accessibility field that are there. Um that's a good one. But for anything, I'm still a Seth Goden fan. He's anything he does is great. Um, he seems to be still resonating well.

Scott:

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's uh Cless Web Solutions.com, and then you just go to the podcast page. The other thing that we do now is we put transcripts on the podcast. So we do transcripts and using the script and and then put that in, and because it's also read by search engines and stuff like that. We'll do that. That's a that's a big um new thing that will help. That's another way you can use accessibility.

Scott:

Right. That's been great, Richard. And I know we're we're coming up on our time here. Uh where can people find out more about you online?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, LinkedIn, Richard Gowder, search me out or through my website, seamlesswebsolutions.com. If you're interested in anything to do with accessibility, and we can definitely help there. That's our uh trying to transfer the knowledge that we've we've had how we've created in 11 years of being in accessibility, trying to get the next generation on this thing. Well, Richard, thanks for joining me today. Oh, you're very much welcome. And uh good luck with the podcast and uh stay warm.

Scott:

I'll try.

SPEAKER_01:

All right.

Scott:

All right, folks, that that's it for today. If you like the show or found something useful, text somebody and recommend them to take a listen to an episode. We're here to help every business learn how to financially plan for every aspect of their business. I'm Scott Geller, and I hope you join me next time for budget your business.