Budget Your Business

Growth by Combining Independent and Franchise Businesses with Gus Iurillo

• Scott Geller • Season 1 • Episode 41

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E#41: In this episode of Budget Your Business, Scott dives into the financial and strategic considerations of expanding through franchising with guest Gus Iurillo. They explore how business owners can leverage franchising to scale their operations or add complementary services under separate entities — without jeopardizing profitability or paying unnecessary royalties. Gus breaks down the key factors in choosing the right franchise, aligning role fit and work-life balance, managing cash flow expectations, and structuring the finances between a franchise and an independent business. The conversation also covers the advantages of franchising for predictability, support, and scalability versus starting from scratch.

Book Recommendation: Give and Take by Adam Grant

Find out more about Gus Iurillo: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gusiurillo/ 

Find more episodes on Apple podcast, Spotify, Amazon Music and here: https://budgetyourbusinesspodcast.buzzsprout.com/

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Gus Iurillo:

Yeah, I I think it certainly can be done. I've seen it mostly done in two ways, but I think there are a myriad of ways that it could be done. I've seen clients of mine that have gotten into a franchise, and maybe two, three, four years down the road, they see an opportunity, they're providing these services for the consumer, and they're asking for something else that the franchise doesn't provide provide and doesn't plan to provide.

Scott Geller:

Hello, and welcome to budget your business, the podcast for small business owners who want to learn how to financially plan for every aspect of their business. I'm your host, Scott Geller. Today I'm joined by Gus Urillo of the Entrepreneur Source. Hello, Gus.

Speaker 1:

Hey, good morning, Scott. How are you?

Scott Geller:

I'm doing well. Thanks for joining me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Scott Geller:

Gus is the, from what how I know him, is the franchise expert. But that's a kind of a crude way of introducing you, Gus. So why don't you do our listeners a favor by uh telling us a little bit about yourself?

Gus Iurillo:

So, Scott, thanks for asking. So, I'm actually a franchise owner myself. The entrepreneur source is a franchise, and I've been a franchise owner uh for the last 24 years or so. And basically what we do is we work with folks that are at a crossroad in their career, whether that means they've been downsized from their job, they're just not happy in their job, or maybe even looking to diversify uh their income streams beyond just the job. Uh we help people better understand and in some cases explore the franchise landscape, almost a cross between a career coach and a franchise matchmaker, a coach in that most people have never done this before, so they don't even know where to start, or they need somebody to hold their hand through the learning journey. And the matchmaker, you know, we have my company has relationships with hundreds of different franchise organizations that run the gamut of everything that's out there. And my job is to try to match people up with concepts that best align with their skill sets, their personality, and their goals.

unknown:

Okay.

Scott Geller:

And and Gus, you speak from experience, right? I mean, you spent the better part of your career, or or at least uh the the first part of your career as in the corporate world before you went and found your own franchise, right?

Gus Iurillo:

Yeah, that's right. I probably almost 20 years in corporate America, mostly in consumer packaged goods marketing, working for a number of different Fortune 500 companies before I decided to leave uh 24 years ago to start this franchise here in Richmond.

Scott Geller:

Great. Well, well, thanks for joining us. And I'd like to take this conversation into a uh a little bit different arc than just your traditional how do I start a franchise. And where I'd like to go with it is, and this might be kind of two different paths, feel free to point me down one of them. But one is let's say I have an existing company and I want to expand my products or services or goods, and how maybe franchising may be an option. Or the flip side of that, I've started a franchise, I'm growing this business, but I see something else in the market that my customers are asking for or needing, and how do I handle that? Whether maybe it's another franchise or maybe it's outside of the franchise. So, what is your experience or what is your opinion around kind of joining a franchise and an outside business together to work together?

Gus Iurillo:

Yeah, I think it certainly can be done. I've seen it mostly done in two ways, but I think there are a myriad of ways that it could be done. I've seen clients of mine that have gotten into a franchise, and maybe two, three, four years down the road, they see an opportunity, they're providing these services for the consumer, and they're asking for something else that the franchise doesn't provide, provide and doesn't plan to provide. You can always set up a separate entity. You know, you'd want to set up a different LLC because you want to pay royalties if you're providing a different product or service, and you can actually cross-pollinate your customers by servicing them on the one hand with the franchise and on the other hand with the separate business. An example, the restoration industry, everybody's probably heard of SurfPro. They do a lot of remediation if you're familiar with that, the fire, smoke, water damage, but some of them will then form a separate entity and then do reconstruction work, you know, that's not part of the franchise. So you can always bolt on your own independent business after you've set up the franchise. And I suppose it could go the other way. I haven't seen it as often, but you know, if you've had an existing business and you want to leverage the power of a franchise, whether it's the marketing support, the buying power, etc., you certainly could do that. I've even heard, I haven't seen as much of it, but apparently it's fairly common. Uh, people that have started out in a particular industry and then realized, boy, I need more support. I'm in, I'm in over my head. And they'll actually convert to a franchise. So they'll take their existing model. Uh, I've seen it like in the sign manufacturing industry, because they want the marketing support, the operational support, you know, buying power and efficiencies of a franchise. So I've actually seen some people convert their existing independent, you know, in the same category to a franchise. Again, not as prevalent, but it happens. So there's really nothing to preclude you from doing it. I would just say the important thing is, especially on the first and the second, if you're going to do it as a bolt-on, and and you know this because you're a finance guy, you'd want to create separate entities because if you're doing something that's independent and has nothing to do with the franchise, you don't necessarily want to pay royalties on that. So you'd want to set it up as a separate entity, you know, and bill your cut you know customers separately for any services that aren't part of the franchise model.

Scott Geller:

Yeah, that that that that's a really good point. And I suppose maybe it depends on the on the franchise or but they're typically, are they typically okay with taking that approach?

Gus Iurillo:

Yeah, I uh you know, in the in the franchise agreement that you sign with them, you know, you do have a non-compete, but it's usually fairly specific to any services that are currently being offered by the franchise or so I've seen clients of mine actually write into their franchise agreements when they're first signing them. If I have some other service either they already have or they plan a, you know, and it doesn't compete, you know, you're okay with that. So, you know, you might want to put some language in your agreement or you know, get their blessing. But by and large, as long as it's not something that the franchise or currently offers or plans to offer in the near future, and it's nothing that would undermine the integrity of the franchise model, right? They wouldn't want you to do something like associate with something that was unsavory, but it's probably not gonna happen. Then I think as long as you set it up as a separate entity, you'll be fine.

Scott Geller:

So it sounds like it's a pretty key point to make sure you address that up front in what you're calling the franchise agreement.

Gus Iurillo:

Ideally, I mean, if you're gonna start as a franchise owner first and then add things later, it would be important. Like most of my clients typically utilize a franchise attorney to review the agreement. And if they have that in the back of their mind, then you know, when they're first starting the franchise, it's always good to get that clarified up front. But if you don't and you see an opportunity, you can certainly ask the franchise or just say, hey, I'm I've seen an opportunity in the market, you don't offer it, my agreement says this, I just want to make sure. So it's it's always good to be transparent, but by and large, my experience is as long as it doesn't undermine the integrity of the franchise model, the system, the brand, they're gonna be fine with it.

Scott Geller:

Okay. So I guess regardless of which of those two or three paths you kind of go down, yeah, you have to find the right franchise, right? So I how how do you kind of go through that process?

Gus Iurillo:

Well, that's a lot of what I do with my clients because I find that, and pardon me saying this, most people tend to choose poorly when they choose on their own. Because when they're going out there, there's so many different options, you know, and they're trying to narrow down the field. They usually try to start with, well, I have an affinity for that product or service. I like their pro I like their food, I like their this, I like their that, or you know, or that's what I did in my corporate job. I was an IT person, let me find an IT-related franchise. And the irony is that's oftentimes often the worst way to choose an option because really they're going to train you up in whatever industry. They're not looking for people with industry experience. So they're looking for people with the right set of transferable skills. Some call more on you know, selling ability, others more managing people, some mix, process improvement, product management. So, you know, it's important to get the personality fit right. And I think also what I try to do is take a measure of what my clients are good at and like to do and not so good at and don't like to do from their corporate career. And then how do we find businesses that both best take advantage of their skill sets and what they like to do and minimize the amount of time they're doing things that they're not good at or don't like to do. So I would say role fit is of paramount importance, followed by work-life balance fit, economics, but that's more of a solve for, you know, that's that's more of a either you either provides that opportunity or not. And then you obviously have to believe in the product or service, but I think sometimes if you try to optimize around the affinity for the product or service, you wind up sub-optimizing the other factors that may be more important to make it sustainable.

Scott Geller:

Being on the financial side, guess you helped me with the economics. You mean the economics for the individual, the economics for the business?

Gus Iurillo:

Both, right? You know, so my experience, you know, when I when I'm speaking with folks, I ask them like, how much did you make in your prior life? How much do you want to make? Like, what does success look like financially? Both from an income perspective, right, for themselves personally, because that's how they're thinking, but they're not really thinking about the business. They want to know how much of that flows down to me, right? And how quickly can I get there. And then, of course, equity building as well. And the reason I sort of put economics third is my experience is there are plenty of models that can probably get almost anybody where they need to be financially. But if you don't get role fit right, and I'll call work-life balance fit right, then the economic piece is very hard to achieve, right? Because if you put a really smart person in the wrong franchise for them, they're really gonna struggle in it. Whereas if it's a good temperamental fit and you really, you know, thrive in the role of the owner in that business, you can't but help but achieve your economic goals. So sometimes people get it backwards, they're like, which business can make me the most money? It's like, no, let's figure out which business you're gonna do best at. And in that case, you're gonna generate as much income as you want. You know, it's kind of putting the cart before the horse. Got it.

Scott Geller:

That makes sense. So so getting down, staying on the economics path of this, yeah. I look at businesses as needing businesses as needing two things. You don't have a business without revenue, right? And you don't maintain a business without cash.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Scott Geller:

How long does it take to kind of start generating revenue in and I I I know it probably varies, but if maybe you can give us an idea, if if we're trying this franchise model, yeah, how long can I expect to before I can generate revenue?

Gus Iurillo:

Well, I and I do want to make the distinction between revenue for the business and income for the owner, right? So I'll talk about that.

Scott Geller:

Correct, yes.

Gus Iurillo:

Um I typically, when I'm working with my clients, I tend to direct them more towards lower startup, lower overhead businesses, so typically not retail, because retail can take a long time. Like people typically hear the word franchise and they think of a retail concept, right? It's human nature. But I'm not a fan of them, not as a consumer, I'm a fan of them, but as a business owner, because I think they do tend to be higher investment, higher overhead, and they can take longer. They may generate revenue day one from opening the doors, but it could be a year or more before you actually are able to take money out for yourself. A lot of the concepts that I direct my clients to, quite frankly, they can be generating revenue almost from the time they come out of training. That's revenue. But they're gonna have some fixed expenses, some marketing expenses and whatnot. So I usually try to do, and it's and you're right, it is gonna vary by individual, but a lot of the concepts to which I direct my clients, they're oftentimes starting to generate cash flow in their second six months, like money they can put in their pocket. So that I often tell them you may not replicate your past income in your first year, but you're probably gonna generate some positive cash flow that you you as the owner can take for yourself in the second six months of the business. And it's possible that by their second year, depending on how much they were making and how ambitious they are, they might even be replicating their baseline income.

Scott Geller:

Okay.

Gus Iurillo:

But it does depend.

Scott Geller:

Got it. And as far as the profitability within the business, and especially if I have a franchise and a secondary business, how will I know how it impacts the profitability and the business between those two functions or entities?

Gus Iurillo:

Yeah, that's a good question. I'm not sure I have a definitive answer for you. You know, again, because you're gonna keep the two entities separate, probably, but it's interesting if you're using the same customer base. Let's say you start with the franchise and then you add another business, you know, and you're you're the finance guy, I'm not. How do you allocate the marketing dollars towards the add-on business, right? Because if you've already invested it in the franchise, you know, do you split it between the two? You know, if you're just cross-pollinating, you may have no marketing expense to speak of for the secondary business because you're cross-pollinating with your existing customer base, unless you allocate it somehow, you know, to the other business, right? So I guess it really depends on the interplay. That's probably where I would refer to my CPA and say, help me make sure I'm doing this the right way, you know, in terms of how do I allocate my expenses appropriately.

Scott Geller:

Right. Or maybe using, let's say, QuickBooks. Most most everybody uses QuickBooks. Sure. Uh you you know, kind of tracking it in QuickBooks differently. You mean to me, I feel like that would be, I don't know if you've seen that or not, uh either maybe it's two different QuickBooks sessions or instances, which I don't think would have to be necessary, but maybe it is for tax purposes, or you're tracking within QuickBooks using the classifications, the products, uh within the QuickBooks that it allows.

Gus Iurillo:

Yeah, to be honest with you, above my pay grade. That's why I have a good CPA and good bookkeeper, Scott. I would say so I don't have a definitive answer because I, you know, part of what I love about running my business is I can delegate those activities to my bookkeeper and my CPA. I would just say the most important thing is to delineate between if you're gonna have two businesses, one being a franchise, one being an independent, keep them separate, right? And the most important reason, besides budgeting, tax purposes, and all that, is I don't want to pay royalty. Like if I have a separate business, I don't want to pay that five, six, seven percent royalty on my independent business. So you'd want to set it up as a separate entity so the franchise or can't come back and say, hey, that that you know, we're entitled to royalties on this other product or service. Because if you just try to wrap it in the franchise, then you could get into trouble.

Scott Geller:

Right. I I see what you're saying. You you've got to you've got to pay that constant on this annuity back to, or I guess you the royalty back to the to the franchise or company. So you want to keep that separate.

Gus Iurillo:

Yeah, I mean, you get a lot for the royalty, so I don't want to minimize it. I pay a royalty, I'm happy to pay it. But if I were to create a separate entity, let's say I just hung up a shingle and did you know business coaching unrelated to entrepreneurs, I would set it up as a separate entity because it really has nothing to do with my core franchise. So why would I pay royalties on that to my franchise worker? Got it.

Scott Geller:

Okay. Well, I wonder, I was wondering if you can maybe walk us through an example um of where a type of business where this might be able to work in any direction, right? Of if it's you might be a franchise and and you kind of go out and and find other services and in a separate legal entity. But did you have an example you could share with us?

Gus Iurillo:

Yeah, I'll give you two, um, you know, because they're different types of industries. You see, you can see it a fair amount in like the home services industry. So let's say, uh and I know I had a client who did it, she did it with two franchises, but she could have easily done it with an add-on. She owned a handyman franchise here in town and then decided to add uh a plumbing franchise separately. But let's say she just decided, hey, my clients are asking me for plumbing services, and my you know, my handyman franchise doesn't offer that as part of our service offering. I guess she could have brought on board some plumbers, you know, licensed plumbers and whatnot, and set up a separate entity, and you're targeting the same customer base. So I'd say in that case, you know, looking for a complementary customer base to do that. So that's where I think you could see that that you're you go into a home service franchise, maybe with the intention of just focusing on the franchise, and then you get a lot of customers clamoring for something else that your franchise doesn't offer. That might be the impetus to say, okay, I'm gonna figure out how to do that, you know, and hire the right people to do that, but I need to set it up as a separate entity. But I'm gonna cross-pollinate that customer base that I've established with the franchise. I had another client out on the West Coast, and he got into a leadership training franchise, but he was also already doing a lot of work in the nonprofit space, raising money, um, you know, NGOs and whatnot, that he didn't want to give up. And so when he was speaking with the franchise or he said, Look, I'm already doing this, I want to make sure that that's okay. And they were totally unrelated to one another. So those were two different entities. And in some cases, what I'll see is like with him, he said, that work is more of a passion of his, but from a monetary perspective, he's like, I don't know how long, you know, I don't know how to monetize that, how long it's gonna take. So in that, in that situation, the franchise was more of a sure thing. Like, so he was thinking, hey, I need the franchise as my means of replicating my six-figure income because I know that it has a higher potential for getting me there that allows me more time to figure out this other independent business model, so I'm not dependent on the income from it. So that's why I'm saying it could work a myriad of different ways. Again, the franchise or is not going to care unless A, it undermines the integrity of the brand, or they feel like you're taking your eye off the ball with the core franchise. Like if you wind up doing something else and your franchise model was suffering, but that doesn't happen a lot. But you know, they'd want you'd want to be mindful of that.

Scott Geller:

Okay. So my next question, Gus, you've touched on this a few times, but I I want to really kind of lay this out for our listeners, and that is the advantages of going the franchise route is that it's kind of like a plan set up for you, right? You're not starting from scratch.

Speaker 1:

Right.

Scott Geller:

Can you walk us through a little bit of those advantages of what does that exactly mean? Like what are you really getting and and how is that in this for some people, I guess, how is that better than me going out from starting from scratch?

Gus Iurillo:

Yeah, I I I think the key word I would use, Scott, is predictability. Right? And I'll use my own experience. 24 years ago, I walked away from a corporate job making six figures, and my spouse wasn't working outside the home. I needed something that was pretty much a sure thing. You know, as long as I held up my end of the bargain. You know, and you probably know the stats on this, but you know, independent businesses, I think maybe less than 20% of them make it over five years. You know, it's sort of a high risk and you know, whatever kind of reward, depending on how it hits, because you're having to figure it out as you go. It's not like is it a good idea or not, but it just takes a while to figure out the model. And a lot of people run out of stamina or money before they, you know, systematize their idea. With a franchise, you're buying the system already fully baked. So the roadmap is there. There's still a possibility it doesn't work if you don't follow the system, right? So part of what I try to do is help somebody figure out are you cut out to run your own business, franchise or otherwise, and you know, making sure they understand what their role needs to be to make that business successful, like the business owner's the catalyst. But I would dare say if you find the right franchise for you and you execute appropriately according to their plan, you have an extremely high probability of success and predictability in that if you've done your due diligence and spoken to other people in that franchise already, you should have a pretty good idea of how much you can reasonably make year one, year two, year three. If you're a top performer, how high is up and what does that trajectory look like? You can even speak to people that have struggled or not made it and find out what did they do or not do, you know, that you know, to generate those results. So I think there's the predictability of it, right? If you're looking for more of a sure thing, you want your own business, but you want the predictability of a proven model. And then there's the force multiplier effect of, you know, if they're doing the marketing for you, uh, you're paying for it, but they they may be able to do it more efficiently at a corporate level, digital marketing, call center, operational support, helping you attract and retain the right people, best practice sharing amongst franchise owners. You know, there's a lot of franchise can bring to bear. The only caveat I would say is you have to be willing to follow somebody else's proven system, which sounds obvious, but there are some people that just can't, you know, they're madworks. Like, you know, I would never dissuade anybody who really wants to go do their own thing. If, like, hey, you're prepared that it might not work and you're okay with that. You know, every franchise at some point started out somebody developing an independent business that evolved into a franchise that other people bought into. So I would never dissuade anybody. It really depends on what you're looking for. I just think there's a higher probability it can go off the rails with an independent business. And a franchise is a little bit more of a sure thing. So it just depends. A lot of my clients, if they're coming out of corporate America, they want that sure thing because hey, I've got a replica, I've got a family to support. You know, I can't just bet it all on black. I need something with some predictability.

Scott Geller:

Right. And that's a little different than than your traditional startup where, hey, I'm figuring this out, I'm I'm being creative.

unknown:

Yeah.

Scott Geller:

On the far end of the entrepreneurial ship scale of everything's got to be kind of my way, or or figuring out this is this is more of, hey, can you follow directions and maybe can you follow directions and and succeed with it?

Gus Iurillo:

Yeah, and you can still be creative within a franchise. As you know, Scott, most of my business comes from referrals, which is different than a lot of my colleagues. So you can still be creative in the context of a franchise, but there's some core tenets that you have to adhere to, right, to maintain the integrity of the brand. So I think you you know, because that's one of the concerns I often hear from people. Well, if I go in a franchise, they're just going to tell me what to do. And I said, no, they're going to give you the roadmap. You still have degrees of freedom, but you know, if there's certain things that they say are sacrosanct, you pretty much want to adhere to that because they've tried all the other ways and they don't work, right? So if they can show you the most efficient way, you know, to make money and be successful, why do you want to reinvent that wheel? Be creative somewhere else in it. And then I've also worked with people to your point that it turned out really they were more the maverick, you know, and they were like, uh, and I'm like, okay, then go do your own independent thing. That's fine, right? There's there's no right or wrong answer. It really just depends on the individual.

Scott Geller:

Okay. And and how how much financially should an individual or going back to my original idea for this, uh, a business owner, how much financially should they be prepared to invest to get it up and running?

Gus Iurillo:

Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna put a big it depends in front of it. But again, I typically direct people towards lower investment opportunities, non-brick and mortar. So I would say good rule of thumb for a single territory, because you know, franchises, you can often acquire multiple territories. A single territory, the franchise fee might be, let's say, $50,000, which is amortizable over 10 years. And then you might have another $50,000 in expenses, $50 to $75,000. So maybe $100,000, $125,000. That doesn't include paying yourself. That's the to get it up and running. And then there are a myriad of ways to fund that that I help people with. They can typically get SBA loans for that, and there are other ways that you can fund it. But you know, I would say if in the back of your mind you think $100 to $150, that's probably a good number. And like I said, you don't have to have that money available. There are ways that you can fund up to 90% of that through an SBA loan. Got it.

Scott Geller:

Okay. Well, Gus, I appreciate you uh being patient with me as I kind of wander down a random path here of being uh creative myself uh around franchises, but I appreciate you jumping on and joining us here. I'd like to, we like to wrap up every show before I go down another path of just me being creative with how you can use franchises. We usually wrap up every show with one to three immediate takeaways that our listeners can literally put into action when they turn off the podcast. Typically, we asked it to be around budgeting or planning. It might be something you already mentioned, might be around franchising, might be around just running a business in general. But what can you share with us today?

Gus Iurillo:

Sure. I I think as it relates to if you're going to go the franchise route, you might want to utilize someone like me to help you navigate it so you don't waste a lot of time looking in the wrong places or uh getting stuck. I see a lot of people get stuck because they don't know where to go to get the information, or they kind of get inside their own heads. So it's always good to get some outside coaching or advice to help you explore. I know when I talk to my clients, you mentioned like, you know, what the investment might look like. I always try to help them, you know, in a sense, figure out how might we fund this or how might you fund this before we go down the path. Almost like, you know, if you go to buy real estate, you know, you get typically get pre-qualified for mortgage. Not quite the same, but I try to help people understand the difference between SBA funding. There's ways that you can utilize a portion of your 401k to fund the business, which I've had a lot of clients do. So there are a myriad of ways to do it. But before you go too far down the trail of doing it, it's always good to identify at least one potential funding source and what that might look like for two reasons. One, so you don't waste your time going through all the due diligence and then find out, okay, I can't do this. And then two, I find that alleviates a lot of the stress, you know, for my clients. If they know, okay, I know how I could potentially fund it. Now let me go explore. And then they're more confident in their exploration journey because they've kind of pre-figured out the funding piece of it. And then I think you'd probably agree, getting a good CPA on your team, they're worth their weight in gold. You know, I know mine helps me navigate, not just keeping me honest, but you know, there's so many ways that you can legally, ethically minimize your tax expenses as a business owner that people that work for big companies or any company don't have. And so it's important to know that up front. You know, I remember my you know, my CPA talking to me about, okay, now it's time for you to upgrade to an S corporation. I'm like, why do I want to do that? When he explained it, I'm like, oh yeah, I want to do that. Uh, but I wouldn't have known to do that myself. So, you know, you should never feel like you have to do it all on your own. You know, I I think successful business owners figure out what they're good at and what they like to do and focus on that, and then learn to delegate the things they're not as good at, or somebody else can do it more efficiently and effectively, like a CPA, like a bookkeeper, like the people that work for you, you know, so that you can focus on the you know higher leverage, higher value added activities.

Scott Geller:

Yeah, I like that guess. It's it's the dangers of you don't know what you don't know, right?

unknown:

Right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Scott Geller:

Okay. Well, how about uh we also asked our guests for a favorite book or podcast?

Gus Iurillo:

Yeah, I I'm gonna go with a book right now. My podcasts tend to lean more towards funny, so that's probably not relevant from a business perspective. But I'm reading a book now called Give and Take by Adam Grant. He's uh I think he's a Harvard professor. It's a really interesting book, and the the whole premise of it is you know uh the importance of being a giver and you know, like putting you know, doing favors for other people, connecting other people, and how that benefits you in manifold ways, even if you're not it's not a quid pro quo type of thing. It's really almost like karma, like doing good things for other people and how that comes back to you in spades. And I just find it fascinating. And he's done a lot of research on the importance of doing that. And then Scott, you know you and I are both pretty actively involved in the community and you know, connecting people, and sometimes you don't know how that that might benefit you five or ten years down the road, but it was just a good reminder for me the importance of being a giver, especially as a business owner, you know, and especially if you can help other business owners in your community.

Scott Geller:

Oh, nice. We would not have gotten that one. So I'm glad to I'll always you know sometimes you have enough people on, you kind of get the same books, but that yeah, that that's a new one. So thank you, Gus. Yeah. Well, Gus, I really enjoyed this. Thank you for for joining us today.

Gus Iurillo:

Yeah, thanks for having me, Scott.

Scott Geller:

All right, folks, that's it for today. If you like The show or found something useful, do me a favor and reach out to some other business owner or someone that could benefit from it and share the show. Tell them to listen. I'm Scott Keller and I hope you'll join me next time for budget your business.