Budget Your Business

What is a CFO? More Than the Numbers

• Scott Geller • Season 1 • Episode 38

Share episode

E#38: In this solo episode, Scott breaks down how a CFO goes beyond “the numbers.” Far from just budget spreadsheets, a CFO can be a confidant, connector, and strategic advisor—helping owners navigate tough decisions, break down silos, and focus on priorities. Scott also shares how fractional CFOs make that expertise accessible to growing small businesses without the $300K+ price tag of a full-time hire. 

Book Recommendation: Venture Deals by Feld Mendelson

Find out more about Scott Geller: 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-geller-cfo/ 

www.PathPredict.net for staffing firms

www.CapitisAdvisors.com 

Send us a text

Scott Geller:

I remember a session with a client. We were relatively new and working together and we sat down and I asked him to tell me about his business and about his business performance. So he started talking and then kept going and kept going and after a long time he stopped. He finally said it's been a long time since I've truly talked about my business performance and, for the record, it wasn't very good. And I asked him how it felt. He said really good, not about the performance of the business, but just being able to speak to it and get it out, talk about it with somebody he really didn't have anybody else that he could sit down and talk to. Hello and welcome to Budget your Business, the podcast for small business owners who want to learn how to financially plan for every aspect of their business. I'm your host, scott Geller, and today I thought a solo show might be in order. I wanted to talk about what a CFO actually is and a little bit of what they can do for your business. I know that the usual line is that most people think the CFO is the numbers guy or the numbers person, the one sitting around the table that everyone looks at when somebody throws out a couple numbers that need to be calculated or just then has to answer the question of when budget comes up or pricing comes up. And I like to pose a question of is that really all a CFO is? In this episode we're going to break down a little bit of the CFO beyond the numbers, why it's more than numbers and how a fractional CFO might be able to fend for your business. My father-in-law was not necessarily a numbers guy, although he was more than he admitted. That's what he called me either the numbers guy or the accounting guy and the CFO goes way beyond the accounting. In my opinion, the CFO serves as that confidant and listener to the business owner. It's truly that. The saying is that it's lonely at the top, and for CEOs, founders, owners, that really is true. Most businesses I've come across, there's very few, if any, people that they can have a truly open conversation with. But that's where the CFO comes in. That's the person that sees things not many others that not everybody does in the business. They are the person that that CEO can go to and talk about, whether they're just casually thinking about selling the business, maybe they're having issues with their business partner, Maybe they're thinking about layoffs or just getting rid of one person. Maybe it's that C-level individual, even those business secrets or even having doubts about the business. I remember a session with a client we were relatively new and working together and we sat down and I asked him to tell me about his business and about his business performance. So he started talking and then kept going and kept going and after a long time he stopped. He finally said it's been a long time since I've truly talked about my business performance and, for the record, it wasn't very good. And I asked him how it felt. He said really good, being able to speak to it and get it out, talk about it with somebody. He really didn't have anybody else that he could sit down and talk to about.

Scott Geller:

A CFO doesn't have all the answers. I don't have all the answers. No, cfo has all the answers. But it's also not about just the spreadsheets. They provide the space where you're going to have an open, honest and clear conversation with get a straight answer without the BS.

Scott Geller:

The CFO can serve in a similar role, not just for the CEO but across the business. You know, it's really difficult to understand what shapes us when you don't leave your own little fishbowl. We naturally interact with tribal groups. It's just nature, it's our natural tendency and it's inherent within ourselves to stay with other people like you. It's in politics, companies, education, families, really everywhere. And your business is no different. Think about your IT department, your sales department or your ops department. Sure, they have friends outside their department, your sales department or your ops department? Sure they have friends outside their department and they talk. But really they're probably closer with those people because they're similar. And that's where the CFO role can be a benefit. They can provide cross-department access, they can connect dots that other people don't see. And again, it's not just the numbers, it's breaking through those tribal groups to understand the rationale and underlying needs. The CFO is at a critical point with kind of backdoor access to every part of the business. There's very few parts of the business that don't have something financially related. One way or another it probably runs across the CFO's desk and the CFO can use this insight to drive alignment, understanding and enterprise level optimization. A fractional CFO is a little bit trickier, I will admit, because it's harder when you're not in the building every day, which just means you have to be proactive about it. You've got to push for perspectives, you've got to break down those silos intentionally to accomplish the same goal.

Scott Geller:

I do remember working with a client. They were a startup. We were close to breaking, even growing like crazy, didn't have external funding, saw from a little bit and we were talking through a budget. We had a budget session. We're different groups saying, oh, I need this, I need this marketing budget to be approved, I need to hire these developers to get the next wave of relief, to get the next release out. I need some people to support the operations and the clients we have today. There's only so much to go around, and if each of those groups and individuals and leaders are leaders in this organization, if they are allowed to just operate on their own and throw over the wall hey, this is what I need there would have been those silos. So instead we pulled them all together. We talked to them and said, hey, look, we need to get this release out or we're not going to be able to pick up any more clients. So when you go to that convention that you want to pay for or the conference that you want to pay for, you're not going to be able to talk about it because it's not going to be ready. So, talking about the give and takes and helping these individuals prioritize together allowed us to kind of understanding and prioritization of the funding around the organization.

Scott Geller:

I love Ted Lasso. I thought the show was great and his comment of be a goldfish was great. I think about it in an even slightly different way. Be a goldfish, but jump in a different bowl and broaden your perspective across the organization and hopefully you have a CFO that can help you do that. The other stereotype for CFOs is that we are CF no, so we're the CFO, we're the person that says no to everything. I think great CFOs don't say no.

Scott Geller:

They ask better questions and they get the understanding instead of giving immediate answers. They use curiosity to build trust and credibility across the business. Some of those tools that they can use that I like to use is asking why, and more than one time than one time. Get to the underlying, you know. Get to the deeper, surface level answers and just being an active listener. You can't listen while you're talking.

Scott Geller:

I'm constantly telling my son that he asked me a question I started to answer.

Scott Geller:

Then he starts asking another question and I tell him look, do you want me to answer the question or not? So I try to let people talk. I will try to let people give me the opportunity to give me all the information so that I can make an educated, so I can provide a perspective to them that's informed. I'm almost always sitting on virtual video calls with my clients and in those it's hard not to provide an immediate answer. I really try hard to give the other person time and I actually had a client, a founder of a business client, tell me. You know, scott, you're a little bit like a financial therapist. Let's be clear, I'm really unqualified for the on the therapist side, but I took that as a compliment. I try to listen. The cfo should be listening to you instead of just telling you immediately no, or if they say no, then say no, but tell me why I should say yes. A CFO should have a strategic curiosity and a desire to listen, because that drives better decisions. Okay, so now we know what a CFO does, really does or should do Sounds great, right, and it sounds great and necessary, but I still can't afford one.

Scott Geller:

Maybe you're a small business owner, maybe you're less than a hundred million in revenue, maybe you're only one or two million in revenue. You can't afford a full-time CFO. More than likely. According to a survey by this CFO study benchmark in 2025 by CFOConnect, it costs more than $300,000 to bring on a full-time CFO. That's right On average, $300,000 in all. That's not just salaries. You got to think about bonuses, payroll taxes, benefits, maybe equity in that, performance bonuses. So you pull all of that together and you're talking about a compensation investment of around $300,000.

Scott Geller:

Or look at fractional CFO. Look at fractional CFO. You can get the same skill set at 15 to 50% of the cost of a full-time CFO. Who's it for? Who needs it? Well, small and mid-sized businesses, those that have grown beyond their existing resources and could use that experience and guidance of a few contacts to keep in mind. Controller and accountant might be less, and you may already have them in-house. So you're thinking great, I already have these skill sets, or do you? The cost of finding out that they can't provide that work will likely be far greater than bringing in a fractional CFO.

Scott Geller:

I also recommend starting small. Maybe it's a lower engagement, maybe it's a project. I like to come in and provide a business diagnostic explaining what I see in their business. They can take it, they can share it with another fractional CFO, they can implement themselves, or maybe we can move forward to figure it out. Or maybe we can move forward to figure it out. Finding the right fit really matters. Maybe you need industry experience, maybe you need somebody that already knows your business, maybe it's personality-wise. But finding the right fit, including the right person, really does matter. I've come on with companies that have had no financial guidance. I've come on and replaced other fractional as well as full-time CFOs for multiple reasons. But be okay to shake things up. It's okay to change that financial and accounting structure in your business to try out a new solution.

Scott Geller:

I'm a golfer, I love playing golf and I used a new solution. I'm a golfer, I love playing golf and I used a caddy. I went to a really nice course around Richmond, virginia, that had caddies. I used a caddy. Now I also watched TV. I watch golf on TV all the time and I like to think of a CFO, including a fractional CFO, as kind of a caddy to the business owner.

Scott Geller:

That business owner is the golfer, they're the professional, they're the ones that are going to win or lose at the end of the day. They're the ones that are going to take home the big paycheck. They're also the ones that have to make those really tough decisions and they have to execute and be responsible for their action and their decisions. But the caddy is there to help the golfer understand what is the wind doing. Should they hit a knockdown or maybe a full iron? Should they go for it? Should they lay up? They can ask people to move out of the way, get people to stop taking pictures. They're always there to provide information, provide data to their golfer so their golfer can make the best decision possible.

Scott Geller:

The CFO is no different. The CFO is there to help the business owner make the best and most financially educated decision possible. They can't make absolutes, they can't promise X to work better than Y or Z, but they can provide that information. Which way is the wind blowing? What kind of grass is the ball sitting in? Should you aim for the pine tree or the sand trap? They can provide those types of those bits of information to make a better decision. So the ROI of a fractional CFO to me process improvement, stronger cash strategies, improved profitability or profitability insights, rather faster execution those are some of the ROIs that I try to provide to my clients.

Scott Geller:

Now we say a fractional CFO is more practical than a full-time CFO, but it's still not cheap. It's a strategic investment in your business. So do you need a CFO? I don't know if you see any CFO it depends on your circumstances. But if you do, I want you to realize that CFOs are more than just number people. They're listeners, they're connectors, they're question askers and they provide answers. If you need a full-time CFO, that's great. I've helped clients find a full-time CFO and bring it on board. But fractional CFOs make that expertise accessible to small business owners.

Scott Geller:

I follow in law. You used to call me the numbers guy. That's fine, but I would like to be understood as the listening guy, somebody that can provide the information and make sure you're making the best decisions about your business. So if you're a business owner wondering about whether or not you need a CFO and wondering what are my options, well, think about it. Right, maybe it's time to start exploring that route. That's exactly what I do. I help businesses provide. That's exactly what I do Help businesses bring in that CFO-level strategy and experience on a practical investment, without the full-time CFO cost, avoiding that $300,000 investment, and I like to think that clients see and appreciate the value that it still brings to the table. So think about your business's needs and whether a CFO could push you forward to where you want to go.

Scott Geller:

We always wrap up the show with one to three takeaways about that the listener could put into action. And since we're talking about the CFO, I wanted to talk about three steps to make sure you take if you're thinking about that CFO. One map out what they can do and how they can help your business. Two talk to full-time and fractional. One. Map out what they can do and how you think they can help your business. Two talk to full-time CFOs and fractional CFOs to figure out which one might be a fit and then find the right fit for your future business. That doesn't mean today what you need today might not help you in the future. So you've got to think about what your needs are today and where you want to go with the business so you get the right person, the right CFO, in the seat.

Scott Geller:

We also share a book or a podcast. Since this is the podcast, I thought I'd share a book. It's called Venture Deals by Feld Mendelssohn. That's F-E-L-D-M-E-N-D-O-H-L-S-O-N. Venture Deals. It's a really interesting book and great deal about selling or buying a company. The tagline for it is be smarter than your lawyer and venture capitals, and that gives you a little bit of idea around what it's about.

Scott Geller:

Typically, we let our guests tell people where to find them. I think you know where to find me LinkedIn. Look up Scott Geller. If you're a staffing agency less than 30 million in revenue looking for a CFO program, check out pathpredictnet. Or if you're a small business owner and interested in a fractional CFO, you can also find me at capitisadvisorscom. You can find both of those sites on my LinkedIn too. All right, folks, that's it for today. Hopefully, I gave you a little perspective around what it's like to have a CFO. If you like the show, please subscribe, throw a rating out there or, even better, share a show with a friend of yours or a fellow fellow business owner, or some of you think that might benefit. I'm Scott Keller and I hope you join me next time for budget your business.